tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post747438793864745532..comments2024-03-27T15:00:33.760+00:00Comments on Catholic Commentary: The Mystery of Suffering and the Mystery of Good: reflecting on the earthquake in HaitiJoehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-2205278718472534452010-01-27T21:07:13.629+00:002010-01-27T21:07:13.629+00:00...which is likely to be answered by saying that G...<i>...which is likely to be answered by saying that God does not exist.</i><br /><br />Agreed. But I think anyone who has taken the time to think about it will agree that it says nothing of the sort. That's one option but I think it's reasonable to draw one of <i>two</i> conclusions from God's actions in Haiti. Either he doesn't exist <i>or</i> he doesn't exist in the form defined by Christian doctrine.<br /><br /><i>So, as well as exploring more fully what is intended by the word "cause" in this context, a full account will also look at the phenomenon of the good as well as that of evil.</i><br /><br />It seems to me you're trying to separate the two aspects (good and evil) without justification. Rather, it seems sensible to perform a 'cost/benefit analysis' on the event and come to the conclusion that it had a net evil effect. You seem to be suggesting that smashing the window of an electrical store and stealing a TV has an upside in the sense that at least someone gets paid to fix the window.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-5961414505803132722010-01-18T18:09:37.438+00:002010-01-18T18:09:37.438+00:00Mike:
Thank you for your comment.
I have careful...Mike:<br /><br />Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />I have carefully emphasised in my reflections that I do not intend to in any way compromise the idea that an event like the earthquake in Haiti <i>is</i> an evil, a real suffering. So the idea that the earthquake occured just to set the scene for "the positive" is as abhorrent to me as it is to you. <br /><br />If someone is not a Christian, then the question of (God's) causality of an event like the earthquake is perhaps the only question - which is likely to be answered by saying that God does not exist. But, not just in the context of Haiti, there is an apparent good in the world, as well as the evil. So, as well as exploring more fully what is intended by the word "cause" in this context, a full account will also look at the phenomenon of the good as well as that of evil.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-13101976950374268592010-01-18T11:22:13.817+00:002010-01-18T11:22:13.817+00:00I think I'm inclined to agree with the first c...I think I'm inclined to agree with the first comment. You can dress this up in the Emperor's clothes all you like but fundamentally it doesn't come down to a question of whether God is suffering the consequences alongside the Haitians or of whether humanity finds some kind of meaning or redemption in the act of trying to sort out the mess after the event. <br /><br />All that stuff is irrelevant unless you're suggesting that the purpose of the earthquake was to set the scene to allow these things to happen. I sincerely hope that's not what you're suggesting because that would be simply monstrous. <br /><br />What it actually comes down to is the fact that God caused tens of thousands of innocent victims to die for no discernable reason. This is the crux of the matter and is a point you seem to have failed to address. John Humphreys repeatedly asked this question of John Sentamu and <a href="http://mikehigginbottom.com/blog/?q=node/1" rel="nofollow">he received no reply either</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-47130781552222616672010-01-17T23:07:49.378+00:002010-01-17T23:07:49.378+00:00In answer to your final question: yes. I think loo...In answer to your final question: yes. I think looking for meaning is inbuilt into human consciousness. So,even without supposing the existence of a God, we can find meaning in the suffering of the people of Haiti, just as we can find meaning in the suffering of people closer to home.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808508494613360369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-44224727494311115732010-01-17T21:00:01.915+00:002010-01-17T21:00:01.915+00:00I tried to word my original post so that, even if ...I tried to word my original post so that, even if someone did not believe in God, they might be able to see something in the idea of a certain level of good that is reflected in, for example, the response of the international community to the suffering that has arisen in Haiti - though that does not make the suffering itself in any sense good. [I think that accidentally contributed to the perception of "tedious verbiage".] Even if someone does not accept the articulation of that in the context of Christian faith, is there not some possibility of seeing in it, just at a human level, a degree of meaning in the events in Haiti?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-36402350778054733852010-01-17T20:37:36.520+00:002010-01-17T20:37:36.520+00:00It may reflect a gap in my edication but I had nev...It may reflect a gap in my edication but I had never come across the term ad hominem until I started reading comments on blogs. Since then I come across the term frequently...which tells us lots about what happens on blogs.<br /><br />I suspect the reason why people reject religion but embrace New Age beliefs (BTW, have you noticed that New Agers are always in need of healing? Another theme is that they use authentic, ancient practices...as if this was a recommendation. The last thing I would want is for my doctor to be treating me with medieval simples!)<br />is that there is a deep human need for the reassurance religion offers. I think if you reject the idea of god (as I do) then be grown up about it and accept the consequences/implications. I see no logic in scoffing at, say, god speaking to St. Joseph in a dream and then making a dream catcher for your bedroom window.<br /><br />As for the first comment, I agree with you that by and large it is pointless posting name-calling. In fact, it's often a sign that somebody is afraid of joining a debate. Or that they are so uitterly ignorant they are unable to participate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808508494613360369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-20175990711357168122010-01-17T18:17:13.091+00:002010-01-17T18:17:13.091+00:00See also this post at Communio, which is part of a...See also this post at Communio, which is part of an interview with Cardinal Josef Cordes:<br />http://communio.stblogs.org/2010/01/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-di.htmlJoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-22803690986552960892010-01-17T18:15:05.652+00:002010-01-17T18:15:05.652+00:00Francis:
I had been sitting on what now appears a...Francis:<br /><br />I had been sitting on what now appears as the first comment to this post, wondering how and whether or not to post it. The presumption it shows about my own views made me hesitate to post it - I don't feel I should post ad hominem remarks; but, I thought, should I post it with a suggestion that the original commenter add an explanation of what sense <i>he/she</i> makes of events like those in Haiti. <br /><br />I think your last observation sets them the challenge!Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-68552820382189475972010-01-16T17:56:28.879+00:002010-01-16T17:56:28.879+00:00Perhaps you are in danger of being too Eurocentric...Perhaps you are in danger of being too Eurocentric, Joe. As far as I can tell it's the norm to believe in God in North and South America, in India and much of Asia. So it might say something about a growing place for religious belief in secular Europe.<br /><br />You may be right. I think I'd rather people believed in Christianity, Judaism, Islam than the healing power of crystals. The odd thing about many secualrists is that they reject religion only to embrace utter nonsense!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808508494613360369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-69446439944619019702010-01-16T16:52:14.428+00:002010-01-16T16:52:14.428+00:00Francis:
I certainly found it quite interesting ...Francis: <br /><br />I certainly found it quite interesting that the Today programme did choose to include the package that it did, and to include it in the way that they did. Does it say something about a (growing) place for religious belief in the (secular) world?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-26497302848309247972010-01-15T16:30:27.808+00:002010-01-15T16:30:27.808+00:00Fundamentally, this is a variation on the old '...Fundamentally, this is a variation on the old 'problem of evil' question. How can God stand by and let people do evil things/bad things happen to people.<br /><br />I'm surprised that Radio 4 wasted time on asking the question.<br /><br />If you don't believe in God, then the question doesn't arise (he wasn't anywhere).<br /><br />If you do believe in God, or are trying to embarrass believers, the Church has given its answer time and time again. You can easily look it up on t'internet.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808508494613360369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8994073177496022401.post-83566211696738015962010-01-14T22:41:33.325+00:002010-01-14T22:41:33.325+00:00tedious verbiage
there's no god and you know ...tedious verbiage<br /><br />there's no god and you know itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com